Corrosion Resistance: D2 steel has a higher chromium content than 8Cr13MoV, which makes it better at resisting corrosion and wear. 440A It has excellent edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. worldwide, even the chinese have an equivalent (8cr13mov). Display: 24 per page Sort by: Featured View CIVIVI Voltaic Flipper Knife Stainless Steel Handle With Micarta Inlay (3.48" 14C28N Blade) $88.30 Add to cart We all have our preference, but overall, preference leans towards the pocket knife with a clip. Im a layman trying to understand what makes the best steel for my use. S45VN A2 is a tool steel renowned for toughness. then you have zirconia and diamond coated blades. Having 1.5% Carbon does that. D2 at 58 hard will cut much more rope than AEB-L at 62. D2 knives offer higher edge retention than 14C28N knives, which is attributed to the high carbon elements and hardness of D2. 8Cr13MoV still has some corrosion resistance, but not as much as D2. Almost all consumer-grade pocket knives, EDC knives, fixed blade knives, etc will be in the range of a Rockwell Hardness rating of 54 to 65 HRC. CPM154 is a truly superior steel. Or, is this perhaps a historically useful practice that made sense on softer/less tough steels, but would make less sense on some newer steels that can be used at higher hardness and thus higher edge stability? Sorry about the misinformation. AEB-L is rarely found on production knives but can be found on custom knives easily. Below shows pictures of a 61 Rc knife that was impacted with a 3/16 rod at different energy levels. Are you looking for 14c28n steel with other steel? However, even in this case there is the complicating factor of carbide and abrasive hardness. A mirror finish is the best at resisting corrosion and a rough finish means rust and corrosion is more likely. 14C28N vs D2: Overview 14C28N steel is a high-end stainless steel created by the Swedish company Sandvik. However, the relative difference in toughness between these different examples are similar. Generally seen as a slight upgrade to the 440C/VG-10/ATS-34 caliber of steel, its a decent all-around steel with good corrosion resistance, decent toughness, and only modest hardness. I would like to see the rating and performance on test of the Chinese Steels, that some people use to say its cheap garbage, like 3Cr13MoV, 4Cr13, 4Cr13Mo, 4Cr14MoV, 5Cr15MoV, 6Cr13MoV, 7Cr17MoV, 8Cr13MoV, 9Cr13MoVCo, 9Cr18MoV, 9Cr19MoV, and the 14cr14MovNB to see if they are similar, worse or better than the steels that they copyi believe we gonna have some good unexpected results. Would be great if some manufactures changed their steels based on this information. CRKT and Spyderco use BD1. Even premium steels can have poor performance with poor heat treatment. That said, it's not as tough as many other steels and exponentially tougher to sharpen. Im not sure they answer my question, though, and some of your points dont seem to jive with the info here on Larrins site. REX 121 is a powder steel produced by Crucible. But it would be my recommendation for applications requiring extreme corrosion resistance. It has an HRc over 70, usually even harder than Maxamet. 14C28N knife will dull faster, but it is easy to sharpen. With steels that have a small amount of carbide the size of the carbides can be kept small through processing (see the AEB-L micrograph earlier in the article). All of the experiments shown below are possible thanks to supporters. a burr might have developped on some of the steels and not on others, it might have ben reduced or even removed by the process. 9Cr is the top end of the series and is quite good as good or better than AUS-8. The ratings I have are for an optimal heat treatment. The heat treatment techniques used by the manufacturer as well as the design of the blade itself play a huge role in the ultimate outcome of knife performance! I was thinking maybe Sleipner or A2 would be best if a PM steel was out. I am just grasping at straws here, but from the data you shared, it seems like toughness does increase faster than edge retention decreases: it is harder to get a very high edge retention knife that will still be somewhat tough compared to a very tough knife that will still hold an edge ok. This is a powder-metal steel also produced by Crucible. Importing steel from Europe to the USA, or vice versa, generally increases the cost. If the knife youre looking at has a 154CM blade, youre fine. Also, if you want a fishing knife, 14c28n steel will survive better in wet areas than D2. 14c28n vs D2 Steel. That comes with an excellent return of experience that makes it ideal for the manufacturer of outdoor and tactical knife blades. EDGE RETENTION . The consent submitted will only be used for data processing originating from this website. Typically an increase in corrosion resistance means a reduction in potential hardness for a given steel. I know that one does not normally make knife blades of titanium, but I gather that Ti is extremely corrosion resistant, used for saltwater applications, etc. Metallurgy and Testing of Knives and Steel. D2 is carbon steel that has high toughness and durability. Anyway, buff up the O1v and it cuts leather easily. Why do you give a coin with a knife as a gift? Or even a 7 in both categories. Not every element is shown in the charts. GearJunkie Copyright 2013 2023. Tanto and yet millons of knives are being made out of 1.4116 (aisi 420mov?) I made most of my leather knives from O1v (O1 with .20V) that I hold at 1475 for 15 mins and quench in 120-130 F AAA oil and Kevin Cashen is where those parameters came from btw. Heres a brief description of their impact on the resulting steels properties. Lets talk about the clip-on pocket knife. Another important caveat before we get to the ratings are that these are for the steel only. It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. The only thing putting me off immediately buying the p135 is the 14c28n steel. And steels with at least 10% chromium are probably stainless, except for several important exceptions like D2 and ZDP-189. . Like 154CM, there is a newer version, S35VN, which shares many of the same attributes as S30V but is easier to craft into a knife thanks to niobium. This is a major tradeoff between improved cutting ability and edge retention with an acute angle vs a strong and chip resistant edge with an obtuse angle. Any idea where it would be on the hardness and toughness scales? Steels with very high vanadium content like Vanadis 8, CPM-10V, K390, CPM-15V, etc. The steel was developed to be free from chromium carbides which gives it properties similar to balanced non-stainless tool steels like CPM-4V and CPM-CruWear. Mostly it has been presented piecemeal with all of the studies that we have done on optimizing heat treatments of different steels like CPM-CruWear, AEB-L, 52100, etc. Fix-It Sticks Compact Ratcheting Multi-Tool Review, Toughness, Wear Resistance, Corrosion Resistance. The Sandvik 14c28n steel is ideal for the manufacturing of steel knife blades. Thank you for putting this together, incredibly useful! However, even steel with the best corrosion resistance can rust without proper care. But unlike most high-end steels, SPY27 is an easily user-serviceable powder steel. Hi Larrin Your estimate of 420HCs corrosion resistance is different here than in your October, 2019 post on corrosion resistance testing: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/10/14/corrosion-resistance-testing/ I measured corrosion resistance of a slightly lower carbon 420 here: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/03/02/cpm-spy27-experiments-toughness-corrosion-resistance-and-more/. I love reading through all the data youve gathered and making note of all the trends (Im a physical organic chemist). Below, weve listed some of the attributes you might want out of your steel and given some examples in both the more expensive powder metallurgy steels and more affordable conventionally produced steels. The stainless steel rating. 14C28N is a stainless steel that was developed specifically for use in knives. Its used for combat knives, bushcrafting knives, and other applications where having a supertough blade trumps the need for edge retention and corrosion resistance. It is a Sandvik stainless steel that originally developed for razor blades. The edge retention numbers are normalized to the hardness of the closest toughness test. The brand Bark River uses A2 in many models. first there might have been some annealing going on (even if its was a microscopic level) and the steels might have reacted differently. Very much appreciate you. Rowens heat treat on ESEE knives that use 1095 is exceptional; KA-BARs is less so. Rex 121 23.5% vanadium carbide, 4% molybdenum/tungsten carbide (M6C), Conventional Ingot vs Powder Metallurgy Carbide Structure. BD1 is excellent budget steel, very similar in composition and performance to GIN-1, a Japanese steel used a decade ago by Spyderco. 14C28N VS Steel. So, its hard steel is easy to sharpen. Now that we know what each factor represents, we can see how the steels rank against one another. If you need something that soaks up abuse, try 3V. I was struggling to simplify all the Rockwell/Youngs Modulus stuff for readers when I came across your site. The bump in hardness comes from precipitation of fine carbides in the steel, read an article I wrote on budget steels here, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/26/new-micrographs-of-42-knife-steels/, https://i0.wp.com/knifesteelnerds.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/stainless-toughness-10-19-21.jpg?w=757&ssl=1, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/10/14/corrosion-resistance-testing/, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/03/02/cpm-spy27-experiments-toughness-corrosion-resistance-and-more/, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/03/cryogenic-part1/, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/10/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-2/, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/17/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-3/, The Pros And Cons Of Stainless Steel Copper And Aluminum Brewing Equipment SanctuaryBrewCo, https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/05/01/testing-the-edge-retention-of-48-knife-steels/. What makes 1.4116 such a bad performer in regards to toughness on par with ultra high carbide steel like S125V? What it is: D2 is a carbon tool steel with a relatively high chromium content, prompting some to call it a "semi-stainless" steel. Its hard enough, tough enough, and stain-resistant enough. 14C28N knives are easier to sharpen than D2 knives. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. The best steels with balanced properties include 4V/Vanadis4E, CPM-CruWear, and CPM-M4. Other factors that can be added in are corrosion resistance, hardness, and cost. This is about comparing steels to each other rather than a limitation of an individual steel. What carbon/tool steel would you choose for a survival knife if a PM steel was too expensive? The both blade are equally wear resistant. So for most steels they are given a rating at around 59-62 Rc, apart from a few steels that are never used at that hardness. XHP is an exceptionally well-balanced steel with excellent all-around attributes. Finally, in this 14c28n vs d2, we hope you get the right one. And while youll find it mostly in expensive knives, quite a few approachable M390 blades exist. rex 121 The brand designed it as a carbide replacement. LC 200N is an elite performer, with high hardness, high toughness, and off-the-charts corrosion resistance. Non-stainless steels can be heat treated to 66 Rc or even higher depending on the particular steel. 14C28N vs. D2. This is a nitrogen steel that is extremely corrosion-resistant so much so that its used in knives designed to go in salt water, among the most difficult conditions knives are used in. This does not predict which knife will cut longer or be more resistant to chipping. CPM-S90V, CPM-S110V, CPM-10V, and Bohler K390 each fit in this category. Vancron has a very fine microstructure so it would be tough to beat. They differ little in composition and treatment. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Also D2 is not stainless as at least 5% of its chromium is tied up in carbides where it doesnt help prevent corrosion. So setting edge geometry for the type of knife and intended use is very important. worldwide, even the chinese have an equivalent (8cr13mov). Also Mo additions improve corrosion resistance for a given amount of chromium. Combination of knife steel properties. That mixture has one goal in mind: making a great steel for people worried about rust and corrosion. Anyway, astute comment, but edge retention does mean a lot in woodworking. It would be great if you wrote a basic rundown of cryo treatment of knife steels, whats involved, the effects, interactions with other treatments like tempers, alloys that benefit the most, etc. The steel comes with increased wear and abrasion resistance properties. Powder metallurgy steels with low vanadium content like CPM-1V and Z-Tuff/CD#1 have extremely high toughness. Carpenter produces this powder steel. The 25 dps sharpened knife saw almost no edge damage with 2 ft-lbs while a 15 dps edge saw a significant chip with only 0.3 ft-lbs and catastrophic chipping with 1.4 ft-lbs. 14C28N, designed by Sandvik at Kershaw's behest to have the edge properties of 13C26 but with increased corrosion resistance by adding nitrogen and chromium. AEB-L is a non-powder steel produced by Swedish steelmaker Uddeholm. The 8Cr13MoV vs D2 debate. Maxamet is one of two current high-hardness kings, with HRc marks in the high 60s approaching 70, a hardness usually only seen in carbide steels. My test is for comparing different steels, not necessarily for a go/no go test for saltwater applications. SPY27 The big names in powder metallurgy are Crucible (CPM- steels), Carpenter (CTS- steels), Bohler Microclean (M390), and Uddeholm Superclean (Elmax, Vanax). Thanks for the Article Larrin, In many cases the cost of working with the steel for the knife companies is more significant than the cost of the steel itself. Divers, sailors, and anglers need knives that will resist corrosion above all else. Let the job at hand be your guide. For example, below is a video comparing a 1095 ESEE knife at 55-57 Rc and a MagnaCut knife at 62.5 Rc, both with the same edge angle. If you want to learn more than keep reading past the ratings. These properties make steel a good choice for making kitchen, fishing, and everyday knives. most knives are being made out of these and other mediocre steels like 14c28n, 420j2, 425m. Some steels are cooked up specifically with this in mind and are very difficult to make rust. Poor heat treatment can make a knife too hard, too soft, hard to sharpen, easy to deform, or cause other issues. Must-Have Bowie Knives for Your Collection, What is Micarta and What Makes It a Great Knife Handle, Top 8 Reasons Why Knives Make the Best Gifts, Pocket Clips: Carry Safely and Comfortably, Make a Knife Your Own with Accessories & Customization. and get better and longer-lasting performance? High wear resistance steels are more expensive to buy and to process, especially since many require powder metallurgy. The 1.4116 I tested has large carbides in it which is presumably the reason for low measured toughness: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/26/new-micrographs-of-42-knife-steels/. CPM 3V BD1 isnt terribly hard but sharpens easily. Should you continue to scroll further, you may find yourself lost in a seemingly endless list of knife steel wealth and knowledge. So we get back to my original question: if a D2 planer blade at 58 Rc and the associated level of toughness will perform acceptably with a 30 sharpening angle, is there some way to extrapolate at what sharpening angle another steel with higher toughness might perform equally well? 420HC, 420, and 5160 all offer off-the-charts toughness. I know it's much more stainless and corrosion resisitance, but what about wear resistance? So hard vanadium carbides means you get more edge retention for a given amount of carbide. . AEB-L and 14C28N are the best in the high toughness group. But the true calling card of INFI is its insane toughness. All rights reserved. This list is not exhaustive, so check out some of our rating tables for more information on whatever steel youre interested in. The high hardness makes it all but impossible to sharpen and machine. Ive found S35VN less chippy even at the same hardness. 8Cr13MoV is comparable to the Japanese AUS-8 but containing slightly higher carbon content. 1. Its an update of its 12C27 and 13C26 steels, which were developed for use in shaving razors. H1 I was just comparing AEB-L and 14c28n to decide which steel to get for my next knife project and although 14c28n seems to be a bit more abrasion resistant, my primary goal is toughness and edge stability. PESR would be an interesting topic too (also tied to LC200N). Being stainless is not an on or off property, and some stainless steels are more resistant to corrosion than others. More expensive powder metallurgy steels in this category include M390, CPM-S35VN, Elmax, CTS-XHP, CPM-S30V, and CPM-154. my understanding is that wood is not a particularly abrasive material and a plane is more of a push cut action than a slicing action so I would have though edge stability and sharpness is more important than edge retention meaning ABE-L should work pretty well. But weve tested this metal in the form of the Sobata 398 for nearly a year and have been continually impressed. the problem is in the innumerable combinations of grades, grains sizes and coatings available. A proprietary steel and heat treat developed by Busse Knives, INFI is an excellent performer and one of the best steels for big choppers on the market. 8670 and 5160 are good choices for large knives that need very high toughness. 1.4116 https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/03/cryogenic-part1/ 0.62% of Carbon: Makes knives harder and more resistant. One of the more common stainless steels, and one readily available in lots of different places worldwide, AUS-8 is a decent all-around steel. D2 steel Socould you please clarify which steel is the outlier and which is the line>. 14c28n steel and D2 steel are both high-quality knife steels. But to learn more about these and other attributes, read our related outdoor knife buyers guide. I used to work for a company that did reclaimed old growth lumber (swamp cedar, old growth pine and oak beams, etc) and we went through planer blades twice as fast as the cabinetry shop next door (turns out the neighbors like it when you put all the loud businesses together and far away), which mostly cut fresh cherry, oak, maple, hickory etc. That is professionaly popular such as the Japanese designation SKD11, Uddeholm Sverker 21, German designation 1.2379, Hitachi SLD and others. It improves wear resistance and hardenability. Been here before? The table shows combinations of knife steel properties for different classes of steel. show very different and even inversed behaviour (e.g. Or is this an argument that tends to be rooted more in the presumption that Japanese steel > Chinese steel than any practical difference in reality? Is that regression line (or other trend line?) Why does Maxamet and Rex 121 stay the same tcc but Zmax drops and 15v goes from below 900 to over? Three main characteristics differentiate steels from one another: corrosion resistance, hardness, and toughness. My other knives are a Real Steel E77 8cr14mov. Hello LARRIN, do you have a Rough estimate on when ApexUltra (as well as more Magnacut) will become available? It can withstand a lot of wear and tear. Its OK to be a steel snob, but keep in mind that you dont have to if you want a good knife. Maxamet and Rex 121 are so extreme in terms of wear resistance and edge retention that I rated them higher than 10 because otherwise it throws off the ratings for everything else.
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