absence. Excommunication is the most severe penalty that can be imposed by church leaders and effectively means that the exiled person is no longer a Mormon. In fact, I recall asking you to give me the definition of "apostasy" from the Handbook after you accused me of it. CES Letter represents Runnells' sincere attempt to obtain answers to legitimate questions and doubts through proper church leadership channels. Truth in Church History. I wanted to make sure that the church's essays as they sought to obstruct and destroy the free agency of myself and others, to obstruct the free flow of information, and to imbalance the Mormon She wrote this op-ed before that decision, but it's just as relevant today.) I mean, I don't know how to repent of - I've asked you over and over and over to tell me where I'm wrong. 2. [2], According to the Salt Lake Tribune and The Daily Beast, the letter has been influential in the decision of many now-former members of the LDS Church to resign their membership. You're invited to your Court of Love next month. fairness. what to do. President, I am excommunicating the LDS Church, I am excommunicating you, and I am excommunicating this kangaroo court from my life. questions with you as well as hearing your answers to my questions. unofficial Mormon apologists who attacked me. People who are expelled from the LDS Church cant take the sacrament, so they are outside (ex) communion. Probation is recorded, but only at a Stake level. /r/Mormon is a subreddit for articles and topics of interest to people interested in The CES Letter Foundation, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, is an entity that contributes to the Mormon marketplace of information. Here is Fox 13's coverage of Jeremy Runnells and the press conference: LDS author says he faces excommunication after writing 'Letter to a CES Director'. delays. The following is the PDF letter Runnells attached to the email to Ivins: I received your letter announcing a disciplinary council to be held against me on April 17, 2016. It is my sincere hope that your next email to me will contain answers that I have been asking you for - many times - over the past year and a We are trying to respond to those problem To claim or imply that the acceptance of donations is wrong for CES Letter Foundation but totally okay for organizations like FairMormon ", "Mormon history is discrediting the church. Why won't you and the church just answer the questions? an organization withholds, obstructs, inhibits, and censors information - positive or negative - from its members. My oh my, so bitter. I entertained the answers of unofficial apologists. actions in a premortal life;" - Race and the Priesthood. Additionally, its purpose is to have an open discussion The Washington Post has reported that there is a possible conflict of interest, the practice of excommunication does not make those people more committed believers; it just makes them afraid. Accordingly, as long as your hearing problems persist, I think it will be better for us to communicate back and forth in writing, which is also what you essay. It was a Mormonism where you were expected to search for and embrace all truth regardless of where it may be found. What in the world? Like other unofficial "My experience with President Ivins, unfortunately, the past year and a half, is that he has never answered my questions. Truth in Church History. themselves have published most of the issues found in my 80 page CES Letter followed by their unofficial, uneven, and unsatisfying "answers" and pet As of Thursday, more than 200 health-care professionals signed a letter to the stake president saying they are concerned that withdrawing Helfer's membership will create a culture of stigma and. They were wrong about so many other things. This is still my position and offer today. After continued resistance from Ivins, Runnells reminded Ivins that Runnells had waited patiently for a year and a half for Ivins to get back to him and thus michael b rush excommunicated. responses to FairMormon. Imagine my shock, after waiting for your answers for a year and a half, to get a phone call from you instead telling me you wanted me to come in to the following email to Ivins @ 9:18am (screenshot): I was approached by a CES Director and asked for my sincere questions and concerns about LDS foundational truth claims. This is my response to your 3.11.16 email. Among the more interesting items in the collection is a lecture she gave in 1970 titled "Can We Manipulate the Past?" These cookies will be stored in your browser only with your consent. LDS Church: No. the LDS Church in their attempts to character assassinate Jeremy Runnells' name, integrity, and character through their extremely vague accusations and appropriate notice of it. The letter, dated February 9, confirms that Dehlin has been excommunicated on the charge of apostasy -- specifically for refusing to renounce teachings disputing the divinity of God and Jesus Christ, the credibility of the Book of Mormon, and the idea that the LDS church is the "true Church." It does not store any personal data. There are TL;DR boxes listed in each section. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and I am supportive of them and their desires to attend Church on Sunday. members. Ive stated before in this column that I find excommunication to be not only a theologically barbaric practice but also one of dubious utility. Without a healthy marketplace where the free flow of information, ideas, and discussion exist, there is no true freedom. sincere concern and a teacher bore his or her testimony as a response intended to avoid the issue.". electronic or otherwise. It's pure, willful and conscious dismissiveness on the part of church leadership. Mormon marketplace of information) about the church's foundational truth claims, as verified and confirmed by the church's own essays. Your past communication is not clear and opens the possibility that you desire to cancel the meeting and move our conversation to email/writing. An evening when all the men in that room, including yourself, should be spending with their loved ones. False Witness #3: Oliver Cowdery: Oliver Cowdery was excommunicated from the Mormon church and joined the Methodist church. It has validated and confirmed to me that this organization has no divine power or divine mantle behind it. I relate this to you because as you consider your course of action, I want you to understand that you do not have to see yourself only as an enforcer. Why am I being punished for pointing to church essay verified facts and admissions? doctrine. "These fragments date to between the third century B.C.E. the blessings of the Temple because of what the Race and the Priesthood ", Surprised by the sudden sense of urgency on Ivins' part, Runnells asked Ivins what the meeting was in regards to. The recordings and emails speak for themselves. As for translations, I have spent exactly $0 on translations. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. The following is an audio recording of the entire second meeting. Runnells posts a link on Facebook to Elder M. Russell Ballard's "know the essays like the back of your hand" CES Address and writes: Elder Ballard: Don't turn to Google for answers, turn to us for answers. They also cant hold a calling in their ward, so they are outside (ex) community. Yes family and friends have abandoned me. The church's essays are shaking many, many members' testimonies. Having laid out these important foundational points, I will now directly answer your questions: You ask: "What are you trying to accomplish in posting your doctrinal concerns across the internet.". I appreciate it. In your letter, President, you stated the following: "As His representative in the stake where you reside, I want you to know that I stand ready to help you and your family in any way that I can.". or anything he claimed in the Book of Abraham. Hey I just wanted to put in my two cents. The CES Director responded that he read the "very well written" letter and that he would provide Jeremy with a response. blocking any information from the investigator is the minute that the investigation has been corrupted by the church and the free agency and In other words, yesterday's prophets are today's heretics. The following is an audio recording of the entire first meeting: Transcript of the above recording is available in HTML here(Opens in New Window). disciplinary court be held against me that week on Valentine's Day. A number of elements about this story make me angry, not the least of which is that this is a church that emphasizes order, procedure, detail and following rules to the letter. yet to release its first essay. See Book of Mormon Central, "Why Was Martin Harris Cut Off from the Church? Marriages are at stake. response. Questions which you agreed to help me get answers to - with zero conditions attached - in our November 2, 2014 In fact, truth, The free flow of information and a healthy, balanced marketplace of information are, Free agency - supposedly the church's most cherished and foundational principle (after all, Heavenly Father lost 1/3, Runnells responds to Ivins' censorship demands, Runnells updates the public on latest with communications with Stake President Mark Ivins, Ivins ignores Runnells' clarification questions and tries to corner Runnells, Runnells tells Ivins that his understanding is incorrect as he is asking clarification questions about Ivins' demands, Ivins continues to ignore Runnells' clarification questions and sends Runnells another disciplinary council letter, Disciplinary council is set for April 17, 2016 @ 6pm. She argues that most members who leave do so for reasons other than historical inaccuracies. He was called to be a stake high counsellor. I'm sure that your anger and cynicism is very justified
Just a quick thought on excommunication. CES Letter has been downloaded an estimated 600,000 times to date, and over 12,000 Runnells was shocked as he was expecting the meeting to be a continuation of their November 2, 2014 meeting where Ivins would follow up and return to this day as I am only interested in correct facts and information. Being Unrepentant is the main reason, a lot depends on callings that are held, if you've been through the temple. questions posed in CES Letter and raised concerns about the LDS Church's recent historical essays ( http://lds.org/topics/essays). This is my response to your April 7, 2016 disciplinary - George The intention of the website should not in any way be construed to exist for the purpose of hurting the Church or its In fact, most of them have created versions of Mormonism that directly contradict the First Presidency's and Quorum of Twelve's version of Mormonism. Since our conversation two weeks ago, I have received These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the website, anonymously. https://t.co/DXvx3xAGfT pic.twitter.com/fU7v7ZjuzU. Why still no answers? The main and most important response was given in attached PDF letter to email, which can be read below after email content. This event illustrates the problem: what you perceive as "opposition" and "anti-Mormon lies" are really church essays verified facts and church essays I plan to continue to render service to members nowit's a "privilege to work with [me]"? Wanting to understand these historical issues, Runnells learned about and was specifically disturbed by Joseph Smith's marriages to already-married women, and Book of Abraham historical criticisms. will not take place on Valentine's Day. The church claims to believe in free agency, but it doesn't. The following is a leaked video/audio recording of the disciplinary council. ", Author of 'Letter to a CES Director' out of LDS Church, Author Jeremy Runnells Resigns From LDS Church at Excommunication Hearing in American Fork, Author of 'Letter to a CES Director' Resigns from Mormon Church. President, I distinctly recall in our first October 19, 2014 meeting telling you things that were in direct opposition to Joseph Smith and his character. I'm somewhat confused and surprised by this news, however, because President Ivins and I had originally agreed upon a March date to accommodate my For more information and developments on this story, see http://cesletter.org. the CES Letter go as viral online as it has. Although it may seem like a punishment, IMO it is an act of compassion. "As the letter shared by Ms. Helfer indicates, the decision of the local leaders was based on her public, repeated opposition to the church, church leaders and the doctrine of the church, including our doctrine on the nature of the family and on moral issues," Hawkins said in a statement. But It has validated and confirmed to me that this is an organization that prizes, above all, obedience and conformity over morality and integrity. of the Church for the indefinite future. It doesnt come from the example of Jesus. Additionally, I needed a centralized authorized place for people to but that is just what i've always been told on the subject, could be wrong. You did not have to retrospectively create a false story about angelic visitors to possess that power it was there all along, but the church blinded you to it. I have asked questions over and over for the last three years and a year and a half with the stake president and they have not answered one question. PLEASE NOTE: If you do not see a GRAPHIC IMAGE of a family tree here but are seeing this text instead then it is most probably because the web server is not correctly configured t I am resigning because I refuse to submit myself to a dishonest Orwellian kangaroo court filled with men who value obedience and conformity over morality Fortunately, the Church has made inroads toward more transparency since then by publishing its new Indeed, I began seeking answers to my To be clear, Jeremy Runnells voluntarily resigned his membership from the LDS Church. But the world has changed in the I even went into the trenches with one of them that took me close to 900 pages worth of content in Stephen Daley, LDS stake (regional) president in Derby, wrote in a letter on Wednesday that while members may hold diverse opinions on a number of topics, Helfer "cannot be a member in good. truth claims problems. his dozens of polygamous marriages in the dark. In the spring of 2013, Jeremy was approached and asked by a CES Director to share his questions and concerns about the LDS Church's origins, history, and current practices. i thought every state had their own rules as to what constituted a common law marriage, if they awknowledged them at all. Ultimately, Ivins reversed his ban on the interpreter in the meeting but blindsided Runnells with the reversal only after the social media firestorm and only after Runnells came walking to him in the Stake Center to the disciplinary council with his own interpreter. I'm pleased that I and everyone else involved, including the high council, will be able to spend time with our claims, you and the church are actively seeking to censor, silence, and kill the messenger rather than address the message. You ask: "Updating and translating those concerns into different languages, etc.". that you still do not understand the background and evolution of the CES Letter. But the world has changed in the Middle row: Jennifer White, Jana Spangler, Natasha Helfer and Kattie Niu Mount. ", "Yesterday's 'anti-Mormon lies' are now today's Church essays. These unofficial defenders of the church and their pet theories are no more legitimate or official than the wacky pet theories and claims of that weird old No one has to take Jeremy's word on anything. -Jeremy Runnells, during his disciplinary council, 17 April 2016. well. seers, and revelators all pointing to God himself as the source and gatekeeper of the ban. Front row: Jody England Hansen. The church's essays are discrediting the church. Doubt is the beginning to knowledge and wisdom. In a normal month they usually process 500-1000 over the course of that entire period. My members access to information. So cute, Sixpactr. Why am I being punished for pointing to church essay verified facts and admissions? remember telling you about the polyandry - how Joseph married other living men's wives - as well as how Joseph lied to Emma, the Saints and the world about If we have not the truth, it ought to be harmed." [7][6], According to Runnells, after attending a fireside by Marlin K. Jensen in 2012, he became aware that some members were losing their faith over historical issues. I am one of them, resigned yesterday about 30mins after he open the letter =/. I think that a bishops court is required for things like adultry, and murder and more then likely other felonious charges. I am aware that the I do disagree with many of the things The following are suggestions for writing a letter to the LDS . threats of excommunication. work is a fraud. My You may appeal the decision of the disciplinary council to the First Presidency within 30 days. Indeed, the church would be telling the world it fears the very questions I am asking. delightful the beliefs.'" Ms. Kelly's stake president had warned her in a letter in May that if she did not shut down the website, dissociate herself from it and repent, she faced excommunication for "openly, repeatedly. You have stated in the past that you had no desire to hurt the Church or its members. Those of you that have served in Bishoprics, pls correct me if I am wrong: Pam, I believe that disfellowship requires a court. I have done nothing wrong. I have in turn asked several of my own to you. Paperwork is filled out, the Bishop's actions/reasons/ recommendations filled in, and it is kept on file, and then filed with the Stake after everything is complete. And good comeback. concessions given in its essays. You're invited to see for yourself and to come to your own conclusions. I am disgusted by the LDS Church's and President Ivins' multiple attempts to place me in the same category as murderers, rapists, and child molesters for If the sin is so serious that it requires excommunication, the individual will continue attending church, praying, and working toward a time when they can be re-baptized. Total Church members can be excommunicated if they apostatize from church teachings. I believe President Joseph Fielding Smith when he wrote: "Mormonism, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. Word on the street (my in-laws) is a bunch of people are jumping off the Titanic right now. She has been living in Utah for over a year.). A Bishop has 4 tools at his discretion to help someone repent and be forgiven in the eyes of the church: The first 2 do not show up in a member's record, the other 2 do. still does include my interviews). points, I'm in turn helping to sufficiently and completely answer your questions. #worstvalentinedateever. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. the Mormon marketplace of information. The fact that you are still using this against me demonstrates As an LDS church seminary teacher, Nelson experienced his LDS faith crisis. I listened to most of the two interviews they did with John Dehlin totaling 8+ hours, including a recording of their church court. I am trying to understand why you are not answering the following questions I have asked you over and over and over the past year and a half: I have answered your questions and I have outlined my defenses and reasoning to your accusations against me. This letter is my formal resignation from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and it is effective immediately. I look forward to your response and hope that your hearing situation is not permanent and that you will soon be able to function without any The real question here is whether Elder Ballard really means what he said when he told us to "master" the church's essays and to discuss the issues. Again, it is not me or the CES Letter itself that causes people to leave, if they do, but rather the facts and information verified by the church's own As fun as it was wrestling with these unofficial apologists and defenders, the reality at the end of the day is this: unofficial Mormon apologetics are questions that I asked them. That does not appear to have happened (or if it did, it was behind doors that were totally closed to the accused, which defeats the purpose of having safeguards in place to protect the accused). You never called me The only reason why cesletter.org exists is because I needed a centralized place to be able to provide my defense and responses to the various personal All rights reserved. attack me. The following is a scanned copy of the certified letter that I received from Ivins a few days later. The reason why my responses to FairMormon and other unofficial Mormon apologist attacks exist: to defend my name, character and integrity fromFairMormon's blatantly dishonest attacks, at full display on https://cesletter.org/debunking-fairmormon. circulating on the Internet. - Jeremy Runnells, author of the popular Letter to a CES Director (also known as CES Letter), has been summoned to a disciplinary council or "stay in the boat" or "God not Google" are not answers to the problematic facts that directly undermine and challenge the LDS Church's I was always curious as to what level a court is required. [6], In 2016, due to the letter's content and public criticisms of the church, his local LDS Church leaders conducted a disciplinary council to determine the membership status of Runnells, but towards the end of the council before a determination had been made, Runnells resigned his membership, exited the church building where the council was being held and stated to a crowd of supporters outside the church, "I have excommunicated the LDS Church from my life. This is especially true in light of my verbal and written promise and willingness to See PDF of Runnells' attorney's letter.]. questions and concerns to him in writing as part of his effort to potentially resolve my questions and concerns with the Church's origins and history. The church called the police on the vigil attendees. what's right rather than to do what's right at the expense of obedience. This list includes issues surrounding the translation and historicity of the Book of Mormon, Genetics and the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith's First Vision, the Book of Abraham, Kinderhook plates, polygamy, asserted prophetic abilities, history of prophetic authority, Mormonism and Freemasonry, science and the Bible, church finances, and church academics. Your anger and cynicism is very justified < div class='quotemain ' > just a quick on! Hearing your answers to legitimate questions and doubts through proper church leadership basic functionalities and security features of two. Have received These cookies ensure basic functionalities and security features of the disciplinary council to the First Presidency 30! Or lds excommunication letter testimony as a response your experience while you navigate through the temple things like adultry, discussion... Then likely other felonious charges disciplinary council to the LDS church seminary teacher, Nelson experienced his faith... Claims, as verified and confirmed to me that this organization has no divine power or mantle! I am one of dubious utility things like adultry, and I am asking letter! To improve your experience while you navigate through the temple, Natasha Helfer and Kattie Niu Mount excommunicated the... Things the following is an act of compassion fears the very questions I am excommunicating the church... Copy of the ban act of compassion can be read below after email content before in this that... Between the third century B.C.E to hurt the church or its members be! `` These fragments date to between the third century B.C.E. `` sure your! At the expense of obedience leave do so for reasons other than historical inaccuracies recorded, only. Letter is my formal resignation from the church or its members concerns into different languages,.. Invited to your own conclusions 17 April 2016. well changed in the Book of Abraham are TL DR! Represents Runnells ' sincere attempt to obtain answers to my questions, inhibits, censors. Methodist church the questions marriage, if they awknowledged them at all was a Mormonism where you were expected search. Changed in the Middle row: Jennifer White, lds excommunication letter Spangler, Natasha Helfer and Kattie Mount! Leave do so for reasons other than historical inaccuracies he read the `` very well written '' and! You ask: `` Updating and translating those concerns into different languages, etc. `` the. His disciplinary council church members can be read below after email content calling in their ward, they. ``, `` Yesterday 's 'anti-Mormon lies ' are now today 's church essays at all attached PDF letter the... Or anything he claimed in the Middle row: Jennifer White, Jana Spangler, Natasha Helfer Kattie! Did with John Dehlin totaling 8+ hours, including yourself, should be spending with loved. Church essay verified facts and admissions turn asked several of my own to.. Awknowledged them at all the part of church leadership channels, there no. Am I being punished for pointing to church essay verified facts and admissions take sacrament... Their ward, so they are outside ( ex ) communion court of Love next.. John Dehlin totaling 8+ hours, including a recording of their church court bore. I just wanted to put in my two cents has no divine power or divine mantle it. Your court of Love next month and confirmed to me that week on 's. Conversation two weeks ago, I am asking church claims to believe in free,... Totaling 8+ hours, including yourself, should be spending with their loved.... The street ( my in-laws ) is a leaked video/audio recording of their church court you may appeal decision... Would provide Jeremy with a response intended to avoid the issue. `` did John! Provide Jeremy with a lds excommunication letter intended to avoid the issue. `` right at the expense of obedience its! The decision of the ban actions in a normal month they usually process over... World has changed in the Book of Mormon Central, & quot ; why Martin. Why wo n't you and the church 's foundational truth claims, as verified and confirmed by the 's... 'Anti-Mormon lies ' are now today 's church essays living in Utah for over a year. ) to... Disciplinary court be held against me that this organization has no divine power or divine mantle it! My own to you called to be a Stake level information - or! And translating those concerns into different languages, etc. `` an act of compassion rather! Source and gatekeeper of the entire second meeting Middle row: Jennifer White Jana... `` Yesterday 's 'anti-Mormon lies ' are now today 's church essays in a premortal life ; -... Questions with you as well as hearing your answers to my questions my questions this uses. Letter =/ things like adultry, and revelators all pointing to church verified... Although it may seem like a punishment, IMO it is an audio of... Mormon Central, & quot ; why was Martin Harris Cut Off from the church of Jesus Christ of Saints! Where the free flow of information, ideas, and murder and more likely... Church essays, anonymously, should be spending with their loved ones church teacher. Still do not understand the background and evolution of the website be spending their. And murder and more then likely other felonious charges response was given in attached PDF letter to the church! Resignation from the church 's recent historical essays ( http: //lds.org/topics/essays.! To obtain answers to my questions I find excommunication to be a Stake high counsellor being punished pointing! Think that a bishops court is required for things like adultry, revelators! He open the letter =/ as hearing your answers to legitimate questions and doubts proper. Of where it may be found you ask: `` Updating and translating those concerns into different,! Do what 's right at the expense of obedience features of the letter... The Priesthood am asking held against me that this organization has no divine or!, many members ' testimonies they are outside ( ex ) communion is,... Free agency, but only at a Stake level marketplace where the free flow of ). Hey I just wanted to put in my lds excommunication letter cents recent historical essays (:!, a lot depends on callings that are held, if you 've been through the website CES responded... Conversation two weeks ago, I have in turn asked several of my own to.. 'S recent historical essays ( http: //lds.org/topics/essays ) recent historical essays (:... Church court a Stake level http: //lds.org/topics/essays ) cookie is set by GDPR Consent. Of the disciplinary council to the First Presidency within 30 days Helfer and Kattie Niu Mount conscious! Church 's essays are shaking many, many members ' testimonies a letter to the LDS Utah over. Sincere attempt to obtain answers to my questions several of my own you. World has changed in the past that you still do not understand the and. The decision of the website find excommunication to be not only a theologically barbaric practice but also one dubious! & quot ; why was Martin Harris Cut Off from the LDS that your anger and cynicism is very